Unconditional Love and Agape. Television interview with Jean-Luc Ayoun. February 14, 2019. Part 1.
Presenter: Jean-Luc, thank you for being with us at Mindalia Television. Welcome.
Welcome to you too.
Presenter: We know that you are a person who speaks of unconditional Love, which you also define as Agape, but we want to know you a little better. How could Jean-Luc be defined?
Well, well, a human being who has been eager to understand, both the visible and the invisible, both through intimate experience, but also, as I said in my presentation, through neuroscience, so-called traditional medicines, in particular acupuncture, which is my field, but also all traditional medicine systems.
So, a curiosity and, I would say, a search for permanent meaning, until the moment when I understood, by living it, that all this knowledge I had accumulated was of no use to me in living this state that we will call Agape, whose first conceptual approach was indeed first described in the spiritual world, for example, the description and all the writings of Sri Aurobindo on what he had called the supramental at the time.
It so happens that today, through this accumulated knowledge, which is of no use to me for Agape, there have been, for about ten years, particular branches of neuroscience, in particular what we call in French neuroethology and neurotheology.
That is, by summarizing to the extreme, that all mystical processes, whatever the tradition we look at, observe, realize, everything that has been described by the greatest mystics of India, but also in Christian mysticism, or even in Sufi, is in fact perfectly explained and explicable today, in particular through functional imaging by nuclear magnetic resonance, scanning imageries.
The neurosciences today explain perfectly, because it has a biological support, all the mystical processes, and even the processes that are very well known today, such as the NDEs, the near-death experiences, and that all this, of course, is written in the brain and has been found, explained. Even the most surprising processes, such as the awakening of the kundalini, the access to the supramental, all this is perfectly explainable and, above all, today, does not concern a few mystics, a few exceptional beings who have travelled this Earth, but concerns all humanity.
What I have expressed by this word Agape, or Unconditional Love, which is not a marketing word, represents a reality in terms of understanding the brain. All mystical processes are today identifiable, measurable, objectifiable. The modelling of mystical processes, their explanation, understanding and experience, due to the current circumstances of the Earth and the solar system, clearly represent a major paradigm shift, which can be approached in different ways.
Socially, for example, there is a term that is widely used today, in a common way, called disruption. Wherever we look today, whether it is in computing, for example, where all the computer operating systems that were previously based on a binary system, zero, one, are replaced by a system called quantum, in other fields, in society for example, we will talk about collapse, break down, but in the end, all these approaches and experiences, show us the evidence of this paradigm shift.
This process, as I said, is not reserved for a few mystics, but concerns all of humanity, although it is true that for the time being, it does not concern, of course, the whole of humanity, but an increasing number of human beings, who are experiencing this disruption, as illustrated for example in France or in other countries by the yellow jackets, at this time. And all this leads us to a change that is much more than a change.
That's why I call it a paradigm shift and we've perfectly identified it, this paradigm shift, in the brain. To simplify to the extreme, what will show us, the passage for example, when I took the example of the classical, binary computer, to the quantum computer, is in a way a passage from the inexorable duality of this world, action/reaction, male/female, yin /yang, which is today in full revolution, with more or less consciousness, but nevertheless with a real observation, which we observe in all sectors of society.
So, it is really a different paradigm, where the whole aspect, by summarizing here too, of separation, there is the sense of identity, which is linked to the history of the person, but also of humanity, today opens the doors to an unknown person who, even if there is evidence, as I said, in neuroscience for example, in society, is above all a total transformation of how the brain works.
I would like to take one example, without going into detail, because it would be very complex, and we can summarize it as follows. There are neural circuits in every human being that dictate all human behaviour. These circuits are perfectly identified and bring together what is called the seat of identity, that is, the idea of being an individual within a form where, of course, as we are mammals, like all other mammals, there is a societal, group aspect, with a number of well-known operating rules, which is an operation that could be called hierarchical or pyramidal, and which is being formally replaced by a form, even if the term is not exact, of equality, which puts an end to this hierarchical notion.
Whether it is inside the individual, who really lives that he is not only an individual, but who is inserted, inscribed in a non-separation or non-separation, this translates into a major change in the brain, which we are able to reproduce by certain molecules that we traditionally call enthogenes, for example, molecules that are currently under great study. I will mention only two of these molecules, DMT and salvinorin, which are the two most studied molecules at the moment, because of their capacities on the functioning of the human psyche.
It is well known today that the usual and old man functions under the permanent influence of these two circuits, which are called the reward circuit and the punishment circuit. In the old man, the punishment circuit is always, always predominant over the reward circuit. This is what induces this kind of pyramidal hierarchy. Whereas for all those who have, for example, lived an experience at the gates of death, not to mention mysticism, the NDEs, for meditators, there is an inversion of this relationship. That is, the reward circuit becomes more important than the punishment circuit.
That is to say, everything related to religions, which has induced within humanity not only this pyramidal system, which is a system of enslavement, which is opposed to freedom, is now being transformed.
For example, It points out, not to mention mystics or neuroscientists, that in the United States, in a survey conducted by the Gallup Institute, it is estimated that about seven to ten per cent of Americans have experienced this near-death experience, sometimes even without accident, in a totally spontaneous way. It is relevant, but I will not go into the details, because it would be too long, what are called morphogenetic fields.
We observe that from the moment the reward circuit becomes more important than the punishment circuit... The punishment circuit is nothing more than Judeo-Christian teaching, to which society can only submit itself, and which today is confronted with this disruption that concerns not only humans, but all life on Earth, as well as everything that happens within this solar system, for example astrophysical data that clearly shows that beyond the appearance of global warming, there is an essential transformation that includes and encompasses all life, all forms of life.
Because from the moment the reward circuit has taken ascendancy on the punishment circuit, there are a number of things happening in the functioning of the human being and in the functioning of life, where competition, predation, the pyramid hierarchy, is replaced by a word that is benevolence.
Because once this transformation takes place in the neural circuits, there is obviously a change in behaviour that is induced, where the human being can no longer feel separated or divided from his congeners as well as from everything that is alive. So of course, this can be translated in different ways, whether it is through a need for change in agriculture, the need for a change in societal organization, but these are all aspects that will become more and more visible and that we are already seeing.
Presenter: So it is a global change that we are seeing, but you are talking about a change in humanity, a morphological change in the human being...
That's right. That's right.
Presenter: ... who will give changes and who is in a process of change. But I wonder: we are also living in a world of extremes at this time, where the old paradigm is facing the transformation of the human being...
Presenter: ... including at the cerebral level.
Presenter: Opposition to what is being initiated is therefore being created.
This opposition is already foreseeable by the explanation at the level of neuroscience.
Presenter: But my question is: in these times of extremes, where for millions of people what you say and what science shows, becomes an ever clearer inner reality that transforms the world not only technologically, but at a human level...
Presenter: How long could this process take and would it not lead us into a process of involution?
I would summarize this by saying that there is no evolution or involution. There is the truth and there is what is not true. The way the old paradigm works, based on division, separation and hierarchy, can no longer persist. Because morphogenetic fields, as You said, concern millions of individuals, and there can be no turning back.
Presenter: Have we reached critical mass?
Yes, the critical mass was reached last year. But no one knows the date. Because, as the gentleman said, there are obviously opposition forces, these opposition forces are linked to habit, to automatisms, to our own brain called reptilian, which is the archaic brain, which conceives only two things: I am a person and the other is another person. When in fact, there's no one there.
The ontological mutation that is underway clearly shows that the fact of believing oneself to be an individual, with one's affects, with one's stories, is in fact, as it is said in Advaita Vedanta, it is a theatre scene, what has been called the ego, that is, the sense of being separated, of having to seek, as I have done, a meaning, an understanding.
Today, it is simply enough to accept the unknown, without fear, whatever the extremes we can only observe everywhere. Because what has been acquired by the illusion of being a separate person, obviously does not want to disappear on its own. This kind of struggle is played out in everyone and in society as a whole.
Presenter: Can this result in an imminent global catharsis?
There will be a global cataclysm. But from the moment you live the truth... And there is only one: we are Love, before being a form, a body and a story. And putting an end to this oblivion, what I now call myself, in clinical psychology, what we call the myth of immortality, because a person, an ego, can only exist because he believes he is immortal, even if we know we are mortal...
And what happens in the cell, in the morphogenetic fields, in the brain, and especially in the heart, affects so many people on the planet... And these individuals discover, sometimes in a brutal or progressive way, that they are not only this character on a theatre stage, with a history, affects, social status, but that we are anterior to all this.
So of course, in spiritual movements, I am not talking about religions, we are going to talk about new-age, in quotation marks, we are going to talk about a new society, a paradigm shift, as I mentioned. But it is much more important than that. Because from the moment you lose the feeling of being an individual, an ego, when you have by the effect of this energy, this consciousness that is there, everywhere, you perceive and you live clearly that in fact, that nothing is separate. And that, beyond all religious concepts or adhesions and beliefs, in short, what all these mutants, all these brothers and sisters, these mutating humans, tell us is that we had forgotten who we were and that we are still.
But the veils of conditioning and living conditions allow us today to live the truth. This Truth is not a matter of a point of view or location, but it is common to everyone, especially those who oppose it.
Presenter: And does this truth common to all beings, to all persons, also extend to the rest of sentient beings on the planet? Because human beings are not alone in inhabiting the planet, they are not alone in transforming themselves...
I did indeed talk about nature itself, the fauna and flora. You can see that all over the world, this year, there was a second spring in the middle of winter. Cherry trees are in bloom in Japan, not in March, they have already been in bloom since the middle of winter. Animals change their behaviour. The climate is changing. The magnetic poles change. The planetary conditions, beyond our small earthly sphere, have already changed on all the planets of the outer solar system.
So there is both a paradigm shift, where of course a lot of people who are going through this transformation, this paradigm shift, are still inscribed in consciousness. And of course, consciousness only exists because there is something that is visible, something that is perceived, within the individual. On an ontological level, there is really a rupture of this ego-self, individual, which leads to what I have called this benevolence where Love takes all the place. But this Love cannot be... this word cannot be used, because this Love does not correspond to anything known.
So, if I speak of unconditional Love, the brain, mine as well as that of any human being, can only refer to the opposite, that is, conditioned love. It's inevitable, good, evil. However, these people, who have an inversion of the circuits of reward and punishment, can no longer function in this way.
Presenter: So humanity is in full evolution, a radical transformation of the human being.
So, for me, there is neither evolution nor transformation, to be fair, I would rather speak of transubstantiation, what the new-age media calls ascension, but which in fact and in the end, is only the liberation from the idea of being a person, who needs a body, a world, a form. Because as soon as what I call Agape, therefore, that the brain cannot refer to the known, to history, Agape has no opposite, the brain does not know, therefore it cannot refer to the known, in reference to individual history, or to any religious or spiritual history.
Presenter: In this process, will we continue to move forward in this same physical medium?
Not at all. Not at all. On a purely phenomenological level now, it is obvious that many things are hidden by those who know, I am talking about the old world. Because, I am going to be very brutal, what we are experiencing at the moment is an extinction level event, that is to say a phenomenon of global extinction, as the Earth has already experienced. But it is not only about our Earth, but about our entire solar system and, much further afield, about the whole of creation. It is the discovery of Agape, and the experience of Agape, beyond any belief, beyond any frame of reference.
There is an expression that I like very much, that accompanies what is happening right now, that was spoken by a great sage who recently lived in India, who was called Nisargadatta. And what is happening, at least for those who have already experienced this appearance of transformation, where the reward circuit has replaced the punishment circuit, in the first place, clearly shows us that all this is a theatre scene.
It is not a concept, it is not a belief, it is not a reason, an understanding, it is something that is really lived, that I am alive before I have a body, that I am alive even before creation. This radically ends for the one who lives it, what I will express with this sentence from Nisargadatta which says: the end of religion is the beginning of spirituality, the end of spirituality is the beginning of truth.
(To be continued)
Through Jean Luc Ayoun
Transcription from French: Equipo Agape
English translation: https://www.deepl.com/translator revised by LMF