Unconditional Love and Agape. Television interview with Jean-Luc Ayoun. February 14, 2019. Part 2.
Presenter: So we'd be at the end of spirituality?
I will repeat the sentences of Nisargadatta, I am not a follower of anyone except the truth, who told us that spirituality is a vast scam, which was necessary in the old world, and which joins what we are discovering today in neuroscience and through this apparent paradigm shift, and which does not allow us to be subjected to a pyramid system at the societal level, or even to a form, or to something that has a beginning and an end. We are all One, as proclaimed by Advaita Vedanta, but I would say that we even predate the One.
Obviously, this is very scary for society, very, very scary for the old paradigm, because it is unknown. And as long as it is not lived, it cannot be understood, because it is not a mental understanding, it is a direct understanding, linked to the lived experience. And when you live that, you can't cheat. We can no longer be fooled by any world. Then evolution appears to us as a decoy. We are perfect from all eternity, before the world existed.
And so, it's normal that there should be fear. We must remember that the ego, the character, only exists because he believes he is immortal, that the character hopes for a better future, hopes to find a balance, to find a meaning.
So obviously, what I am saying here does not concern all the beings who are experiencing this transformation, but all the human brothers and sisters who are at the forefront of this living it. Not all creations are true. Creation is a dream that passes, but what we really are will never pass.
What I am saying here are not concepts, but words that I place on the living, whose simple translation, whatever the words, is that we remember who we are, prior to any creation. As Nisargadatta said, and others, the only difference between you and me is that I know that I am a god, but you are not yet, and in fact, there has never been a god.
Truth will be translated, beyond the neuroscientific aspects, by what I call joy without object, joy without subject, what I have called naked joy, which is the witness of Agape. I don't need to wear an orange dress, nor do I need to claim any control or ancestry over anyone. As Haidakhan Babaji said, for example, if we look at India, "The savior is in you, reveals him and loves him. .
And when you live this Love, which is unknown in humanity, which is not even related to the supramental of which I spoke at the beginning, but which is related to this unspeakable Love, which is prior to any world... We have always been perfect. And in fact, as Nisargadatta said, there is the actor on the theatre stage, the character, for many years, for thirty years, many human beings have discovered that they are not only the actor, but also the spectator. That's about the supramental, that is, the one who sees.
But what is happening right now is that it goes much further, that we are neither the actor nor the spectator, and that when we leave the theatre, which is the whole of creation, well, we realize that there has never been a theatre, that it was a dream.
Creation is a dream and once again, I insist, it is not a concept, it is a living. And this living does not translate into an escape from reality or any escape from this world. It is an overcoming of this world where only the present moment counts, because there is neither past nor future and translation, as I said, is that naked joy and unspeakable Love, which are not expressed through an outfit, a ritual or a practice, but through what I would be tempted to call our most simple humanity.
So many of us live it, Elisa will be able to talk about it with her students who, in quotation marks, are not students, the people who participate, like the meeting we had here, where finally we share a common living, whatever our age, whatever our past beliefs may be and where what becomes most important, not because we are looking for it, because it is. This is what we call the gift of self, or what we could call the unconditional embracing of everything that takes place on the theatre stage, but also for the spectators.
The human beings who are at the forefront of this transubstantiation, this radical transformation, we all say the same thing, whatever our life, whatever our age, whatever the pains of our lives, that we are none of these things. We can no longer believe in anything except in the present moment and in this Love that we are, that I have called Agape.
What I am saying here would not have been possible a few years ago, because when there is only one who says it and lives it, it refers us to the allegory of Plato's cave, which is exactly that, said otherwise, it is the same thing. The one who attracts the attention of those who look at their shadows that the light behind them projects, are identified with their shadows. And then one day, one day, he turns around and sees the light. This one in general, he's crucified. And then until the moment when the one who has seen the light comes out of the cave and sees that he himself is that light.
Being this light and this Love, what we really live, we have no pretensions, no claims in this world, but we are so much part of it in our humanity, we no longer have any teaching or things to sell or offer, except to be entirely ourselves. And the clearest and evident manifestation of this state is not in the visions, nor in the so-called spiritual powers, what are called siddhis, which are present of course, but Buddha said: "When you meet the powers, save yourself quickly.
All these brothers and sisters of whom I am a part, we are neither a community nor a religion, we live the truth. And living the truth ends the world. Nisargadatta said: "Spirituality is a scam and consciousness is a disease. . I join it completely, we all join it completely together, we live it, because we live more and more intensely and more and more regularly, of course, whatever the hazards of disease, wealth or poverty, and what happens in us beyond the explanations is above all reflected in laughter. Here again, a laugh without object, where even the notions of energy, even the notions of supramental, which are nevertheless real, no longer mean anything to us.
We are really, as Krishnamurti said, freedom itself. Freedom cannot be locked up, otherwise it is no longer free, in any system whatsoever, be it a societal system, a world, or in any religion or community whatsoever.
And how do we recognize ourselves? Because we are all in laughter, in the smile without object, without subject. Then we have nothing to sell. As I said, this does not concern all the brothers and sisters who are living this mutation, but we know, to live it, that this process is inevitable, inexorable. We can never go back in time within the archaic structures.
So obviously at the beginning, it presents itself as a paradigm shift, this famous disruption, which is necessary, and the disruption leads to extremes, between those who are afraid of the unknown and those who live this unknown. We can't convince anyone, there's no teaching, there's no religion, there's no group, there's just Life.
That is, we live, but it is not a formula, nor an image, we are no longer our life, we are Life. And each of us can say without blushing and without pretending, that we are the way, the truth and the life. But we have no superiority, no goal, except to be fully present in the present moment.
Alchemy is realized here and it effectively puts an end to religion, spirituality and consciousness. This is what Nisargadatta called the Parabrahman or the Absolute, but which is still associated with the teachings of the Advaita Vedanta, for example, and which we chose to call Agape because there was no frame of reference, to properly mark this disruption.
But we are all those who live this by the millions, whatever our character, whatever our social role, we have recognized ourselves as beings of pure Love, which is of all perfection and all eternity. There is only the consciousness that believes it is going to a new world, but in reality, I will be very violent, there is no new world, there is only the truth. We are Love, only that.
In fact, when I accept to be nothing, what we could call the gift of self or sacrifice, it is not a mystical mechanism, it is a mechanism that concerns the whole of creation. And for us, it is indelible, it cannot be erased, because we live it and we are stripped of all belief, all projection. We have discovered, through our living, that we are really and concretely one in the other, and that the whole of creation is in us, but that this creation is only a dream and that we predate creation.
This naturally puts us in this state of joy, in this laughter and in this smile. But we are fully present. Some of us can manifest powers. I can get out of my body at will, but I don't stay in what is called the astral, I have crossed the sun, I have gone into countless... what is called worlds or dimensions, but it's absolutely not necessary. In the same way as someone who lives imminent death, when he leaves his body, he knows that death is nothing, because he exists outside the body. And I simply know that I exist outside this body, and outside of any creation.
And there too, we are millions, and the best proof is neither in neuroscience, because it exists, but in what we are, whatever our age, whatever our social position, whatever our state of health, it is always present and it puts an irreparable end to the dream of creation.
Of course, consciousness, the ego, will never, ever accept it, because it is not an acceptance, it is on the contrary a total acceptance, where there is nothing to reject, where there is nothing to divide or separate. The duality good - evil means nothing, there is neither good nor bad, even if I am aware that good and evil are at work today on this Earth. But what we are experiencing shows us every day that whatever this game of duality is, in fact, only a game, and that every game ends one day.
It is not an individual process, it is not only about the human being, it is not just about what is alive on this Earth, but it is even about our sun, because of course scientists will never say it, but the process, horrible for the person, of death, of this global extinction process, does not exist.
The one who has unintentionally transformed the morphogenetic fields, and who sees the circuit of reward becoming stronger than the circuit of punishment, is obviously lucid of the struggle of good and evil on this world. Listening to this only passes, and that in truth, as Ma Ananda Moyi said for example, we are this eternal beatitude. So today, we are dressed like the others, you don't need clothes, you don't need rituals, you don't need masters, we don't need gurus, you don't need a model.
We are simply in the present moment and that is enough, it puts an end to every question, it puts an end to every spiritual quest, because we are living the truth, and the same truth. This truth pierces all forms, and pierces all veils. We are in a way witnesses of the unspeakable, but we no longer risk anything, unlike Christ who was crucified, because we are countless, and we know, as we live it, that all life is concerned.
We do not need hope, we do not need consciousness, even if of course it is consciousness that is expressed. We are simply joy, we are this laughter, and it is something very concrete. We do not need to rely on any conscience or system. We are not yet outside this world, we are fully on this world, but we know that we are not from this world, nor from any world. This is incomprehensible for reason, it is incomprehensible for consciousness, even by supraconsciousness. What is happening now has already put an end to our consciousness and has also put an end to this inexorable duality.
And when we live this state of wholeness where nothing is missing, which translates into this joy and laughter, nothing can be missing. Because on the one hand we know that the end of the body or the world is not the end, but the beginning of the truth... Moreover, even if we look at the very ancient writings, if we look at Sumer, the Sumerians, all this bestiary of all the gods, all these stories, in fact, are only games, that the truth is elsewhere, and that it only exists in the heart of the heart, what we call this ultimate presence, which was illustrated in the twentieth century.
I have taken a few examples, there are many others of course, I have taken the references in India but there are some everywhere, it is now possible for everyone. Not only possible, but inevitable. And for that, it's very simple, we don't need practices, we don't need rites, we don't need beliefs, we need to be who we are. We are really and effectively, as some brothers and sisters who have already lived this have written, we are indeed one in the other.
I will simply end with these words, it is not in the nature of intellectual understanding. This living is accessible to everyone, without any conditions. There is simply to stop looking. There is simply no need to project yourself. This is in line with the more recent, perhaps more Western, teachings, for example of Eckhart Tolle, who is well known in the West, the power of the present moment.
We are really settled with more or less intensity in this beatitud. It is something we live, it is reflected in all our actions. We do not need visions, we do not need powers, even if they are there, called spiritual, and we do not need a new world.
But it is progressive, it was necessary to acclimatize consciences, hence the presence of these many masters who were incarnated until the 1980s everywhere on Earth, who prepared us in a way for the liberation of all beliefs, all people, all forms. But the ego will never accept that.
But again, there is no need for asceticism or practices. And here too, I use another word, all we have to do is embrace, reject nothing. Because joy is just behind, today for everyone. The course of our lives, to each other, to the group that is there, countless brothers and sisters do not even know what they are going through. They do not need to know, they do not explain it, but they live this Love.
The easiest way is not to ask questions about precisely what good and evil we see before our eyes, but simply to accept. If you accept, you cross over. You have to accept everything. I'm not talking about accepting suffering. If you are in pain, you must take care of it. But I'm talking about the point of view, the positioning. Because when you embrace, you cannot project, and you settle into the present moment that puts an end to what is called the myth of immortality, or the idea of being a person or a conscience.
We are not on the run from reality, quite the contrary, we are fully at our place on the living of this life. We can ask ourselves a lot of questions of course, about the weather, what our holidays will be like, but the inner certainty comes directly from our living it.
I will conclude with these words: there are no preconditions other than embracing. You no longer need models, masters, because we are rediscovering autonomy and freedom, in the sense that Krishnamurti said. It is the gift of life to life, and that is enough to stop asking any more questions, to fully enjoy life in all its aspects.
We embrace everyone because, as Christ said, because we must take so-called historical models, "No one can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he becomes a child again. . The child is alive, he doesn't know that he is a person, he doesn't have a feeling of individuality. This feeling of being a person appears around the age of three or four, but a child, and a baby, a young child, does not ask themselves these kinds of questions. They are indeed like children.
We are not in any way in a leak or a search for anything. We have stopped the engine of suffering, we no longer need to look for anything, neither here nor elsewhere, we can only live and it is a miracle. And this miracle is transmissible because we are not separated from anything. Separation is a myth. We are only Love. Everything else will pass, our body, the worlds, the dimensions, but that is not, neither in time nor in space.
Time and space are an illusion related to the curvature of space-time, what is called electromagnetism, gravitation. All this scientific data is now perfectly known and confirms this. But we don't need confirmation. Our living is confirmation. And we know full well that this promise is being lived at this very moment and concerns the whole of creation, not just this Earth.
We have no way of convincing you of this, neither by the word nor by the explanations, even if they exist, but simply by what we are experiencing. We are the witnesses of life. We are neither masters nor gurus. We have no goal other than to be who we are, whether we are poor, rich, old or young, does not change anything. It is this mutation, ontogenetic, ontological, that is happening right now, that is even ending, I would say.
That is why what is called the apocalypse, which is so frightening, that we really live, is in fact an apotheosis.
Through Jean Luc Ayoun
French transcript: Agape Team
English translation: https://www.deepl.com/translator revised LMF